Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 72 Location: south shore mtl
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: tribes
i was thinking about the after SHTF and TEOTWAWKI scenarios and my first thought was...
we have been trough monarchy, dictatorship, communism, facism, capitalism, democracy, and many more trough the last 4000 years or so... but what was before that??? and for how long???
since the dawn of mankind, the only "way of life"that seems to last is the tribal community: it's organic, so there would be no ecological issues, we would still be stucked with war and violence, but on a much smaller scale, war would be resumed to it's simplest expression... hunting territory
is it just utopia or could it be the answer to make sure TS doen't HTF so hard anymore??? _________________ you'll never feel more alive than on the edge of death
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: tribes
shenkhu wrote:
i was thinking about the after SHTF and TEOTWAWKI scenarios and my first thought was...
we have been trough monarchy, dictatorship, communism, facism, capitalism, democracy, and many more trough the last 4000 years or so... but what was before that??? and for how long???
since the dawn of mankind, the only "way of life"that seems to last is the tribal community: it's organic, so there would be no ecological issues, we would still be stucked with war and violence, but on a much smaller scale, war would be resumed to it's simplest expression... hunting territory
is it just utopia or could it be the answer to make sure TS doen't HTF so hard anymore???
Anthropologist are in general agreement that the tribal paradigm only works when the groups do not exceed a pop. of 30 per . Those days are long gone!!! The dynamics of social hierarchy are immutable. There is no going back. We are what we have become!!! _________________ "If this ain't a mess, it'l do 'till one shows up"
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 72 Location: south shore mtl
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject:
unfortunately, it's so true!!!
manking will not suddently decide to "regress" their way of life, even if i didn't see see any "progress" in society for the last 10 years, each solution to a known problem brigns another problem, and then we need to find another solution to another problem, and story repeats itself, and story repeats itself and story...
looks like theres no end to this by now, were in for a long ride of shit hitting the goddamn fan _________________ you'll never feel more alive than on the edge of death
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 117 Location: Kansas City, MO
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject:
I think that you may be over-idealizing the tribal lifestyle. The tribal paradigm was incredibly primitive and violent. Even with the knowledge of today, a tribe smaller than dunbar's number (150ish) would not be able to have any but the most basic manufacturing and farming capabilities. As late as the macedonian era, the only response to an outside tribe that took one modicum of what the other tribe decided was theirs was immediate extinction and genocide. The tribal life was very unstable and unpredictable. Just saying.
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 72 Location: south shore mtl
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject:
unstable, unpredictable, violent, under-developped.... probably, but one way or another, tribes did not invented pollution, world wars, nukes, chemical agents, and all of those things that causes cancer or other kind of shit....
sorry, i just spoke my mind _________________ you'll never feel more alive than on the edge of death
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 117 Location: Kansas City, MO
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject:
shenkhu wrote:
unstable, unpredictable, violent, under-developped.... probably, but one way or another, tribes did not invented pollution, world wars, nukes, chemical agents, and all of those things that causes cancer or other kind of shit....
sorry, i just spoke my mind :?
You say that as if they wouldn't have used those things if they had them available. Modern day tribes would have all of those things, at least to the extent that they were able. Any time that things have fallen apart in the modern time, pollution skyrockets. With all due respect, you seem to have a very noble view of the very lifestyle out of which we had to evolve in order to progress as a species. There's a word for a modern tribe -- gang.
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 72 Location: south shore mtl
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:53 am Post subject:
damn i hate that word... but yes, you're right, gangs are the city's tribes...
and no, i did not say that a tribe will refuse to use a developped technologie like guns, or chemical agents, or whatever dangerous item manking has created, indians did use the rifle when they had one in hand, but their ways of life were more grounded to the earth than "civilized" ... destroy forest to build houses and make paper was not how they "aquire the richness of the forrests"
i know i sound probably too utopic, but after TSHTF and if there is no global recovering soon after, we will need to adapt, with no governments, no communication further than voice reach, no stores to buy, no place to work, would you be better off on your own, scrambling for your everyday needs(water food shelter) or gather a couple of people so one can grow crops while you go for a scavenging mission, knowing that someone is guarding your bunk at the village and there will at least be some vegetable to eat tonight if you didnt bring something back ?? _________________ you'll never feel more alive than on the edge of death
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 117 Location: Kansas City, MO
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:35 am Post subject:
I agree that it would be nice to have small factions, alliances, or villages if it's the utter apocalypse. However, if the government ever does get everything back under control, I doubt that they'll take kindly to allegiances to governments other than the goold ole US of A.
If it's anything less than the full TEOTWAWKI, I'm planning on holding up with my family and no-one else. Assuming they can all get to home base, that's about 8 people, plenty to get stuff done.
We must remember that in this country,any SHTF will probably be short term. You can waste a lot of time and money worrying about TEOTWAWKI,when more than likely it will not happen and even if it does,your good SHTF preps should give you time to get orginized. _________________ "If this ain't a mess, it'l do 'till one shows up"
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:48 am Post subject: Re: tribes
WB edited to specific:
shenkhu wrote:
so there would be no ecological issues, we would still be stucked with war and violence, but on a much smaller scale, war would be resumed to it's simplest expression... hunting territory
There are always ecological issues.
Trees chopped down for wood fires.
The ground under the fires was damaged due to the heat.
The ground cover the village was on was damaged due to everyone walking/working/playing/cooking on it.
There were no sewage treatment plants so untreated feces was dumped where ever.
All local game was hunted/killed/cooked/eaten.
Generally camped near a river/stream for fresh water source.
The horses would wade out to water themselves, their leavings polluted the stream from where ever they dumped their leavings.
Bathing happened in the stream - the dirt etc washed off polluted from that point on.
Those are just what I can think of off the top of my head.
A Lakota Sioux I served with used to laugh at people who thought Native American tribes were gentle on the land. He said to me, "We used what was there and then moved on to somewhere else and used what was there.".
Many tribes raided other tribes to NOT because of conflicts over hunting grounds but to steal what they could. Whether it was Horses, women, food, whatever.
Many of the same tribes would also engage in warfare just to gain glory. Not all tribes thought that counting coup was a good thing.
It was NOT a utopian life by any means. There were periods when being a dog around a tribe meant being a food source. _________________ WolfBrother
The Sheep Dog lives to protect the Flock and Confront the Wolf.
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